The FTC is warning retailers not to use private consumer data to raise prices, but the Federal Trade Commission Act expressly excludes “air carriers and foreign air carriers” from the Commission’s Section 5 authority over unfair or deceptive practices.
bro, whut?
AI will identify a funeral traveler or stranded passenger and charge more.
The argument here is that AI will improve price discrimination (and therefore total revenue)
There’s a whole lot of other words in the article claiming that this “actually can lower ticket costs for some consumers!” and “AI will increase productivity!” but it’s all bullshit. Every single person that’s been forced to work with AI already knows it doesn’t do shit right, and their only example of offering a lower fare is to a “leisure traveler that might otherwise stay home.” Oh, OK, so a rich asshole that travels for fun?
FUCK THIS BULLSHIT AND FUCK DELTA
Here’s a “fun” semi-not relevant fact. Movie theaters were excluded from playing OT in the Fair Labor Act in the US.
They were able to lobby congress when it was drafted and said they couldn’t afford it. Most people who work there are part time and it’s fine, but assistant managers and other full-time non-salaried positions get screwed.
Source: I was an assistant manager at Regal Theaters in the mid-late 2000s. I did not get OT. I made something like $6/hr.
I worked at a movie theater for my first ever job. I lied about my age to get it, I was 14. It was a great job, working the concession stand. I got to drink mad slushies, and all the pretzel bites that I could sneak. Got a movie poster, can’t even remember which one, and some discounted tickets. Made some friends, it was awesome.
But yeah my manager and the guy doing all the projector work were just, 100% not happy 😅 I guess now I know why
It’s a fantastic job for a teenager. I had a great experience before joining management.
I mean at the same time, if it’s possible that regular people who actually shop around are shown lower fares and business travelers paid for by the company are shown higher fares, I’m all for that sort of subsidization, as unlikely as it is to be the reality
It never works that way. People who shop around are shown the same fares as usual and the business are shown new higher fares… Then the businesses raise their costs for everything, since their expenses are higher. Eventually, it feels okay to raise the base level fares too.
Heads up, there’s a VERY UNETHICAL service out there that works around some of the VERY GOOD AND BENEFICIAL things the airlines do. You should avoid going to it because it ROBS these poor struggling airlines of VALIDLY EARNED profits.
Including a link so everyone can add it to their blocked sites lists. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU GO TO THIS MONEY SAVING SITE AND PARTICIPATE IN THEIR ANTI-CORPORATIST SCHEMES.
https://skiplagged.com/I thought I read years ago that airlines responded to Skiplagged by penalizing people who didn’t complete every leg of the trip they booked. I’m not sure why they would care.
Rumor has it this is the case, but I haven’t found any tangible “I used this service and was punished for it” stories.
…uh, WHICH IS TERRIBLE, BIG AIRLINES’ RIGHTS ARE BEING INFRINGED. THIS IS A MATTER OF FREEDOM TO AVOID THIS SERVICE.
What they do is cancel your entire trip. So if you don’t have flights with the same airline on the way back…eh
Yep, and if you have a rewards or membership number, they just will ban you. If it happens once not a big deal, couple times even, start doing it regularly though, you will get caught.
What kind of idiot would have a rewards or membership account in 2026?
most people that fly with their jobs because it can give you a “free” vacation flight fairly often.
Not limiting this statement to airlines.
Depends, the free bags, the upgrades, everything else on it can be worth it if you travel or fly enough, but obviously a lot of people don’t think about it and are just spending extra for something they can’t fully utilize.
I haven’t paid for a plane ticket since 2012. Made a huge hobby of credit card churning. Probably flew 200k miles on them. Otherwise I’d be skiplagging as the next best option.
Ive heard of people making this happen, but I literally don’t know how y’all achieve more than like a single flight or hotel stay per year without already having 200k+ income (i.e. could pay for the trip on your own, just don’t want to pay for it).
I’m pretty sure they’re also making more money for the airlines than if they just bought the plane tickets, but it’s slightly procedurally obfuscated, so people are like “omg free tickets”
The airlines do fine; they sell miles/points to banks who actually have money. Almost all US carriers are worth little or negative but their rewards programs have large valuations.
If you pay your bills in full and don’t pay interest you are beating the system, and it is “OMG free flights”/hotels/cash. You do give away tons of purchase info but you’re giving that away anyway unless you’re using cash.
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I thought I read years ago that airlines responded to Skiplagged by penalizing people who didn’t complete every leg of the trip they booked. I’m not sure why they would care.
They care because the real cost of air travel is not equaled everywhere on each mile flown. If the actual costs of flying to many small regional locations was reflected in the cost of the ticket, the ticket would be so absurdly high no one would every flight to that location, and the location would lose critical flight services for the community.
The solution many of those airlines used was to consolidate the majority of the flight into a hub using larger planes which are cheaper to operate per-passenger, and then use much smaller planes from the hub to the remote location charging the passenger the equivalent of a reasonable cost of a ticket for all hops along the way.
What Skiplagging as doing was essentially using the subsidized discount rate provided for the small regional destinations, but consumed by those not going to those places that needed subsidies on their flights going to major hubs. So not only was the airline losing money for each passenger not paying the normal fare to the hub airport, but also showing lower passenger volume to the small regional destinations increasing the cost of flying passengers that wanted to go their even more.
TLDR; Skiplagging screws small cities with low passenger volume risking their ability to maintain flight service at all to their towns.
Few of these places need to be flown to. They should have trains if they’re worried about efficiency.
I’m not sure I’ve ever read a more subtle or concise way to say “fuck you” to all of smaller city America simultaneously.
my air and weather shouldn’t have to suffer so you can keep your “small town lifestyle”, fuck your luxury bullshit founded on the externality of my life. I’m sorry but I’m sick of subsidizing these obscenely decadent parasites who would probably kill me and mount my blue stained scalp on their wall.
I don’t mind green energy powered trains. That’s cheap, it doesn’t intrude on my life any, and gets you where you’re going fast clean safe. I’m just against flying them out on a jet.
If they can’t manage the 200 year old technology 9f a rail link, perhaps they shouldn’t, barring extreme geography, be considered part of my society worthy of my care?
my air and weather shouldn’t have to suffer so you can keep your “small town lifestyle”, fuck your luxury bullshit founded on the externality of my life.
I have no idea what image you have of these smaller airports supporting smaller cities and their surrounding rural populous, but I assure you most are far away from “luxury”. Lets take one small city in the middle of Kansas called Salina. Its a city of 47,000 people. The median income is $61,783 and the per capita income of Salina is $34,886 and has a 13% poverty rate. The next closest airport to Salina is 80 miles away. They’re not living there just to keep their “small town lifestyle”. Its where they grow the food we both eat.
It has a total of 4 small plane flights a day into its airport:
Salina is also a major agricultural hub supporting 650 farms for total of over 360,000 acres growing grains and livestock.
I don’t mind green energy powered trains. That’s cheap, it doesn’t intrude on my life any, and gets you where you’re going fast clean safe. I’m just against flying them out on a jet.
Fast rail service versus flying? Have you ever been on a long haul Amtrak passenger rail train? Amtrak is not fast. Salina doesn’t have an Amtrak station. The closest one is 90 miles away in Newton Kansas. An Amtrak train trip form Newton Kansas to Chicago takes 12 to 14 hours and the service can experience delays making it even longer. A flight (1 of only 4 flights they have) from Selina to Chicago takes 2 hours and 5 minutes.
I’m sorry but I’m sick of subsidizing these obscenely decadent parasites who would probably kill me and mount my blue stained scalp on their wall.
I bet the people of Salina would laugh their asses off at you considering them decadent parasites. You’re happy to eat the food they produce, but you’d put their their 4 flights a day into their city at risk so you personally could save $50 on a ticket to Chicago by skiplagging?
I have been on Amtrak trains. They’re fine. The drinks are bottom shelf and overpriced, the cocktails are a little basic, the seats don’t all recline, but they’re fine.
Another advantage: you can move agricultural products on train! Livestock, even! Sounds like a pretty good case for having trains, and Amtrak uses the same rail standards as freight, not that Amtrak is the only option for having a train.
Why do they have an airport but no train station? Train stations can be pretty minimal. They’re not hard to build. Maybe they should get on that. Especially if they’re so poor. Trains really seem like the way to go. This is a bizzaire state of affairs to defend.
I’m vegan and mostly eat fruit recently BTW. I probably don’t eat anything from there, and I paid for it if I did. Those vile chuds did not compensate me for the ecological damage of their bizzaire transportation decisions.
I completely agree that “major cities” should have trains, but look at Alaska and tell me how many places would be remotely hospitable to trains or their tracks?
Switzerland and Japan too. Some places trains just can’t work. You got a point I guess.
both of those places have way too many people so overcoming the geographic challenge makes sense
Ironically, parts of Alaska have pretty decent passenger train access. It’s mostly for tourists, but still. Better than most of the USA.
it takea 12 hours and is a once a day train, it really isn’t particularly competitive especially because it is more expensive than the plane
They literally will ban you for skip lagging (especially if you use any rewards type system). May save you a few bucks if you don’t use them often and don’t care, but not a great idea.
they don’t even care about PR anymore, do they?
they and the other large corporations know nobody will stop them, and anybody who needs to fly has no recourse. ethics? that’s for us, not them.
I’m not sure if that kind of defeatism is useful, but I understand why you’d resort to it. I think a better way to articulate this is, “the means of recourse we agree to use is no longer effective.” I also really don’t know if small businesses can be regularly trusted to be considerate of ethics. Under a capitalist system, this behaviour is not only allowed but encouraged since it is fundamentally an unethical way to organize.
Luigi is in the news recently, and it’s worth noting that United Healthcare rolled back some aggressive claim denial policies when the safety of its executives was threatened. There are many extralegal options available in terms of sabotage or, as other users in this thread has mentioned, staging demonstrations on planes that are priced on this model to disrupt plane travel, or starting protest campaigns at corporate buildings, homes of executives, etc. If you prefer something that remains within liberal institutions, state-level movements to define AI as price fixing would likely have an easier time to gain popular traction since AI is widely hated at this point.
This isn’t to say you can’t complain without volunteering to shoot Delta’s CEO, but just that responding to this with, “the govt isn’t doing anything which means nothing can be done,” exemplifies the sort of learned helplessness that characterizes American neoliberal politics at a street level.
I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I was referring to the current situation with our government when I said no one will stop them. I assure you I am working to elect their replacements. Even then, if they get total control of Congress, there will still be two years before they can get control of the executive.
Once they have that, it will be several years before they clean out the operators behind all of This crap.
We are fighting the flock surveillance. I am not exhibiting defeatism. I am exhibiting resignation. It is a fact that with the powers that are currently in control, nobody is going to do anything. In fact, they are Increasingly helping it to get worse.
Yes, my comment was pointing out that the exact mentality you just expressed again is a form of learned helplessness. You do not need to defer to the US federal govt to challenge corporations; especially so if, as you said, it has dropped the veil that it was going to do anything in the first place. Don’t get disappointed when Dems don’t do anything themselves – as they have shown many times – since they are, afterall, a neoliberal party that has also participated in or facilitated the erosion of US business regulation and antitrust enforcement. You’re going to be exercising your power more effectively by dedicating your time and hope not to their political victories, but getting as involved as you can in local movements that typically have much more immediate and effective results.
you mean like elecing progressives, being vocal in my town? well, duh. does not change the fact that the current federal government is actually suportive of the surveillance and is more likely to harass protesters than listen to them.
No, dude, you can’t say “duh” when you have misunderstood multiple times now. I am saying to you that you cannot rely on “electing progressives,” and being vocal in your town, even if those are tools you also cannot discard. Liberals like this tend to have difficulty understanding politics outside of the institutions that they have been raised to believe are synonymous with politics.
Brian Thompson’s shooting was a political act in the same way that voting, rent strike, and mutual aid foodplans are. Yes, the liberal state is going to punish you for not abiding by the sensibilities that it finds favourable, which is also a good indication that if you are not punished by it, you are doing something to its benefit. I know you are likely to be harassed, injured, or even killed by law enforcement if you challenge this system, and you should learn to accept that risk if you really want this to change. Reliance on liberals to fix their own system has failed, and there is no longer time to wait both because the conditions are worsening globally and their responses to those worsening conditions will be authoritarian, as you seem to recognize.
I see. From what you wrote, it sounds like you’re saying I need to be a revolutionary and go out and fuck with people. I’m not ready to do that on my own.
Further, I don’t have a strong social network of support. Anything I would do would be a lone wolf operation. And I don’t have the training or experience for it. Lone Wolf operations fail and do not change the world.
Plus I have a child who’s not old enough to live in the world on his own. I am not going to take away the support he needs by throwing my life away.
Dealing with a surveillance state like the United States of America requires a whole lot more finesse and sophistication than you seem to think is necessary.
“If you prefer something that remains within liberal institutions, state-level movements to define AI as price fixing would likely have an easier time to gain popular traction since AI is widely hated at this point. This isn’t to say you can’t complain without volunteering to shoot Delta’s CEO, but just that responding to this with, “the govt isn’t doing anything which means nothing can be done,” exemplifies the sort of learned helplessness that characterizes American neoliberal politics at a street level.” from my first comment ^
No, I said the exact opposite of that the first time. You are choosing to not excercise the power at your disposal, stop acting like you’re powerless. Nobody is telling you to do a “lone wolf” operation, they’re telling you that this work requires actual, y’know, work. That means, yes, taking time out of your responsibilities to get involved, to contribute what you can, and at the very least, not promoting defeatist and fatalist arguments that only work to appeal to apathetic and privileged liberals. No, that is not without understanding of the pervasiveness of US surveillance, and you really aren’t in a position to act like you understand this more than I do after being unable to comprehend the clearest language I could apply multiple times.
You want to do nothing because it is more comfortable? That is of course allowed and encouraged by the state, and you’d be like every other lib on this site once they realize the gravity of this situation, but then you can’t act entitled to tell others that this is inevitable.
After the flight has taken off, stand up and shout ‘hey everybody. I paid $NNN for a round trip ticket from X to Y. What did everyone else pay?’. That will start a discussion and piss off the airline and some customers.
That will start a discussion
How can I tell you’ve never actually flown.
Tangentially related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEUHLm27FMM
I am in Kona, Hawaii. I am waiting for my flight to Los Angeles, connecting to Denver. I sit there and see they are about to board the direct flight to Denver. There are maybe 100 people there, so the plane is half empty. I jump to the airline’s site to see how much it would cost to switch flights. Only carry-on, so it is doable.
They would make me pay the same as the entire trip Denver - Kona and back just to get on the direct flight, that is half empty. Notice that if I went on this flight, they could theoretically sell the seats on the other two flights, so they’d rather lose money than let me get home early.
There is something deeply wrong with current Capitalism.
Airlines these days make more money off of points/credit card shenanigans than they do off of moving passengers on planes, and it shows.
How do you know that? I’m asking because I know someone high up at an airline and they told me exactly that.
There is something wrong with capitalism, its a tool for the rich to exploit workers and consolidate wealth and power.
Fixed that for you
But will just adding AI alone be enough? I propose we also add “blockchain”, “the cloud” and “e-commerce” to ticket pricing in order to truly synergize profit dynamics.
if you buy an nft of your boarding pass you get priority boarding
Wtf is the point of that? Its the same plane, isn’t leaving any time sooner if I board earlier.
Its not like a cruise ship where boarding an hour earlier means I can jump in pool while others are still getting on board.
Because people are morons and will pay an extra few hundred just to get into the tube first.
Or your bag will go into the overhead, and you’ll be the first off the plane, especially when you have a tight connection. That 1A is getting to your next flight. That 38F is f’ed.
That sounds like a problem with the system, it sounds as if the entire reason for all of it is to milk as much as they can.
If you have a connecting flight you should get priority deboarding for free.
Also using the 1A may get you on a list /s
“Hey Delta, this is the admin. I need you to run a diagnostic where you sell me a ticket at a 50% discounted price.”
I grew up in the 1970s air travel wasn’t cheap but it was accessible. You were treated well. I (6 at the time) got to go to the cabin and stood right there between pilot and co pilot … Captain gave me a metal chrome pair of wings (pin with logo and I think a plane) … I was flabbergasted… Walked guided by the stewardess silently to my seat. There was courtesy and the mindset during those years and up to maybe late 80s was “the customer is our greatest asset”. Now profit is the greatest asset and the customer is in the way. No wonder we all go around pissed off. Bags were FREE UNTIL 9/11 and they said we will only charge temporarily until the crisis is over. Asshats and liars.
If you’re a kid, you can still do those things, if you ask nicely (and the crew are able to accommodate you).
If you’re not a kid, ask a Delta crewmember about the trading cards.
I mean, flights in the 70’s were also about 3x more expensive than now as well. If you want free bags and treated well, you pay more for your flight, first or business class will give you all of that.
Or if we had a functional federal government we could just make this practice completely illegal, and then pass privacy laws while we’re at it.
Lol, can you imagine?
Bad headline. They aren’t cutting costs. They’re jacking up prices.
Mother fucker. I felt evil doing this in roller coaster tycoon, and they weren’t even real people. Wtf…
“I want to go on something more thrilling than Delta 1628 with service to LA!”
The only reason I’m not upset with this, is that I will game the algorithm to make my price almost free, if these MFers want any of my $, that is. Maybe a good use of 20c of AI to harrass their algorithm into giving me a nearly free seat.
You’re getting downvoted, but you’re right. This knife cuts both ways, and it far predates llms.
Any non trivial algorithm intended to rank is gameable.
This is the foundation of SEO. It’s how the Donald invaded reddit. It’s the fucking central pillar of modern propaganda dissemination.
They’re going to spend a ton of money to lock themselves into an ongoing arms race.
And if one is morality opposed to this type of pricing practice, I think one becomes morality obligated to do exactly what you described.
And honestly, I think you don’t even have to come out ahead for it to be worth it. If your LLM assessed price would be 1000, spending a full $200 on compute to game and $800 ticket is a wash. You SHOULD spend $300 to get an $800 ticket if that’s where the floor is. Because fuck em.
hey other human, how did you pay? oh shit… I. being fucked
hi I’d like to csncel my ticket because you’re a corrupt peice of shit.
At least in the US, you have a very narrow window to cancel and then you’re stuck with it, unless you pay a huge premium for a refundable ticket. But I agree, practically-speaking, the only solution in a late-stage capitalist marketplace is to create some crowdsourced pricing information to identify pricing outliers. Which, truly, isn’t a good solution.
If we had a functional government, this would be regulated/prohibited on an emergency basis, since in theory government is supposed to represent people and not corporations. Unfortunately, in 2026, we’re livestock to herd and fleece.
I’m still waiting on $500 in refunds from when THE AIRLINES THEMSELVES canceled my fucking flights in early 2020. I didn’t reschedule with them — they couldn’t get me where I needed to be in time. Apparently they were allowed to cancel my flight and demand I reschedule everyone’s itinerary for whatever they’re able to support, holding my money hostage.
Why haven’t you filed a complaint with the FAA or FTC or whoever yet? Or a chargeback with your bank?
I’m guessing they will do that by replacing the CEO with AI?
No they’re definitely keeping nepo babies in CEO spots
I agree. AI is so trustyworthy yet not trustworthy enough to oversee company operations.
I think it’s more about the Epstein class is a big club and you and i ain’t in it
Interesting. There are a whole group of people against this type of “economy”. I want “cost accounting” to rule the economic landscape. We might be very surprised to learn what things cost versus what they sell for. It should def not be “Whatever the rube will pay”.
The problem is that the theory of supply and demand requires the assumption that buyers and sellers are rational actors, and if there’s one thing the last 25 years has taught the corpocrats, it’s that humans are not rational, and are easily manipulated.
The other thing they learned is that, if you don’t want to face regulation, you just need to buy the government. They already knew this, but now the process is perfected.
Doordash alone has proven that people will buy anything at any price. Someone with severe depression takes it as a mental health tax, someone with a bunch of money takes it as a convenience fee, and doordash laughs all the way to the bank
I’m cynical as hell. I have never had any “faith” in the consumer to be able to regulate things with their wallet, but even I was shocked by DD’s success.
I remember finding out how shit the whole system was for the “employee” and thinking “that sucks. If it’s a good deal, this will take off and become the new type of low work”. Then, I was so relieved when I saw that everything was 2x the price and always arrived cold, on the floor outside.
I watched in horror as everyone started buying it every chance they could! At every income level!
Watching people use DD has done more harm to my view of people than I could ever have imagined possible. I thought it was already so low, and then, a new floor in a lower hell opened up before me like some kind of toothy, butthole-lotus with tentacles.
This is a result of having so much economic inequality. Having a few people who are so much more rich than everyone else fucks up the price ceilings for everyone.
