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Cake day: August 7th, 2023

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  • Could this be interpreted as in any type of war, and not just a defensive war? It doesn’t seem clear to me via the english translation.

    2:190 says to fight only against those who wage war against you. So it sounds like defensive war to me.

    Could this not also mean the limits interpreted through other passages elsewhere in the Scripture?

    So I clicked on the tafsir of this verse by scholars more knowledgeable than me:

    "(but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.)

    This Ayah means, Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,' such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn Abbas, Umar bin Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated.

    …

    (Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal (from the captured goods), commit treachery, mutilate (the dead), or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship.)

    It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, “A woman was found dead during one of the Prophet’s battles and the Prophet then forbade killing women and children. " There are many other Hadiths on this subject”

    So my bad, it’s not talking about proportionate response. But it teaches the limits of how to conduct yourself during such war.


  • Looking at actual translation at the first one, https://quran.com/al-baqarah/191

    “Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you out. For persecution is far worse than killing. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them—that is the reward of the disbelievers.”

    If you read the verse before it, https://quran.com/al-baqarah/190, the Quran talks about it in the context of war.

    “Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors.”

    The passage clearly says about defending, in the context war. And do it only against the aggressors. And also not to exceed the limits, which means proportionate response.

    It makes sense to fight back. Akin to the Ukrainian defending against Russian invasion.